Oh dear . . .
I'm going to talk about $$$ again . . .
(see my last post on the "job . . . or lack thereof . . . update")
so I'd better get out my shield to protect myself
from the poison arrows that will be headed my way.
(insert smiley face)
Clarification . . .
Some of you apparently assume that when I talk about Jim being "unemployed", that he is receiving "unemployment benefits". That has not been the case for the majority of our unemployment the past 17 months.
Because Jim was a "self-employed" pastor . . . and then a "self-employed" painter . . . he has not been eligible for unemployment benefits for the majority of the time he has been unemployed.
Many people face times of "unemployment" on a regular, annual basis (due to the nature of their construction jobs not working during the winter months). Those people make generally high wages during the months that they are employed, and then are able to frugally live off of their "unemployment benefits" during the winter months.
Others use credit cards to pay their bills during the "lean" months, and then pay off those loans during the "more fruitful" months.
Jim did not receive ANY unemployment benefits during all of his months of unemployment in 2011. And, we do not have any credit cards, and did not take out any loans. We have always worked hard to live frugally during the "fruitful times", so that we could put a bit of money into savings to get through the "lean times". However, with month after month after month of ZERO income, our savings account hit empty right when Jim got the temporary job at the refinery this spring. Then, while he worked this spring, we filled up the savings acct. as best we could (while also needing to pay our current bills, etc...).
Now, Jim is getting a very small bit of unemployment from last year's temporary refinery job. In the past month, since he has been unemployed again, he received one check for $128 and another for $241. Clearly, we are not living off of unemployment benefits. I don't know exactly how unemployment benefits work, but he was told that the benefits he "earned" while working at the refinery this spring, are not available to him until December. So, if he is unemployed for another 6 months, then he can get a couple of hundred dollars per week of benefits? Doesn't make sense to me. Do any of you understand how unemployment benefits work?
Financial Ponderings . . .
Should we sell our house? This is a valid question. We do have a lot of equity in our house, so that could be an option. However, we would not be allowed to purchase a less expensive home (and . . . our house is a pretty inexpensive house to begin with), due to Jim being unemployed. Renting is often an option for people, however it can be VERY difficult to find a landlord that will even rent to an extra large family. Did you know this is the only area that landlords are allowed to discriminate? They cannot discriminate due to gender, s*xual orientation or preference, religion, etc ... but they can discriminate against large families. So sad. (insert frowny face)
Should Jim take a minimum wage job . . . even if it doesn't fully pay our bills? Another valid question, and one that we ponder often. A small income is better than no income. However, then Jim would not have the time to pursue other job possibilities. And, unless it is a job that requires no training (like painting), we do not feel that it would be right to commit to an employer while continuing to look for work.
Should Jim substitute teach as much as possible . . . even if it doesn't fully pay the bills, and he doesn't get paid for 6-8 weeks? We just don't know the answer to this one. When he is substitute teaching, he isn't out "pounding the pavement" in search of more profitable and consistent work.
Should we get a credit card or two? No. Not an option. We do not believe this is the route the Lord wants us to take.
Should we take out a 2nd mortgage on our house? This is one that I have been seriously wondering about. As I said, we do have a lot of equity in our home. Maybe this would help us over this financial bump until Jim finds a permanent job. I don't even know if a bank would give us a 2nd mortgage without a job, but we could look into it. Have any of you ever gone this route???
Should Mama get a job? No. The LORD has clearly called me to be home. But . . . it is a question that still nearly haunts me. There is a job opening . . . a few blocks away . . . that pays pretty well . . . with full benefits . . . where I know people . . . that I am highly qualified for. BUT, the LORD has continued to tell me that my place is at home with my children (a conversation just last night totally confirmed this). But, I have to admit, it is HARD. I am NOT called to be my family's primary provider. I must allow Jim (and the Lord) to fill their God-given roles. I must not "take over" this position, even if I am qualified, able, and available . . . even if it means selling our house and living in a tent. (Seriously.) My "job" is to trust (my husband and the Lord). My job is to wait patiently. My job is to pray. My job is to support Jim in any way that I can. My job is NOT to become our family's primary provider. Period.
Now . . .
some of you are wondering WHY? I wrote this post . . .
because it is so very uncomfortable for you
to even hear details about peoples' personal finances . . .
and so very hard for you to not judge those that
make decisions contrary to the decisions you would make.
Why ? ? ?
Because . . .
I like people shooting poison arrows at me.
(just kidding)
I like talking about "unmentionable" subjects.
(maybe)
I know others of you are walking the same journey.
I know we can learn a lot from each other.
I want to hear your thoughts and ideas.
(as long as they are not attached to a poison arrow)
I know that we can pray more specifically when we know specifics.
So . . .
Let's TALK about MONEY!
How have YOU responded to extended times of unemployment?
Have any of YOU taken out a 2nd mortgage?
Do YOU use credit cards to make it through the lean times?
Have YOU gone to work,
when your husband is unemployed or under-employed?
(I am in NO WAY judging those that have made those difficult choices;
I am just sharing what the LORD has called ME to . . . OUR FAMILY to.)
What have YOU done to help your family survive during "lean times"?
How can I be praying for YOU and YOUR family???
I am single and my son and I live with my sister's and my neice it has always been easier , when the 2 kids came home to be each others day care. We lost our townhome because of this lovely economy. the kids think we moved to make sure they had a bigger yard... I had a fulltime job at a med clinic for 11 years until the clinic went automated for their record keeping. have been doing low paying jobs since then. Now am working as a part time kindergarten aide for the school here in town,pay is good but school is only till 6/6 then school is out. And for me to work full time next year someone else would have to lose theirs. I has been a real burden for my sister to try and take care of allof us. so I do know where you at with that part. Not only do people turn away people with big families but trying to get a job when are getting older is fun also!
ReplyDeletePrayers that your family gets some good news soon!
Rose Anne
You know I completely understand. For us, the only money we have had in recent years has been in our house and we took out a home equity line to help us survive. I hated it but I, too, felt called to be home with the kids. and we sacrificed for it. I have worked part time at times and still stayed home, but not in the last few years. I struggle with these exact questions and callings. To support my husband when I don't necessarily agree or understand what he is doing to provide. To put our faith in God and not in man. Just had this conversation with my son that it is a DAILY surrender that doesn't always come with understanding. I am to model faith and humility and submission when I'm really freaking out inside! But I do it anyway. Through circumstances in the last couple of years we did come into some money and I completely believe it is a blessing from God because we have lived by faith. Yet, my husband is still without work and that money is diminishing every month. It's walking by faith, not by sight. I love you, Laurel, and pray for you as we walk such similar paths. I would suggest trying to make some money from your blog if that is something you felt called to do. Email me privately and we can chat about it if you want.
ReplyDeleteHi Marty,
DeleteThanks sooo... much for sharing your story. I have wondered how you've been making it, as I know we are walking similar paths. Good to know that you were able to take out a home equity line of credit. We may need to look into that.
I, too, have worked part time over the years, and even full-time (while still homeschooling my house full) for several years. But ... RIGHT NOW ... God has made it very clear that that is NOT our answer. :)
Yes. We must put our faith in God, and trust that He will provide (whether or not it is through a job for our husbands).
Love you, too.
:) :) :)
I remember George Mueller's autobiography, that he never once mentioned that he had a financial need, but shared it privately with God, and each time God covered his needs, because he was giving his all for the orphans :)
ReplyDeleteI guess that's the principle I'm trying to work with at the moment, trying not to say any of my needs but to the Lord only, and see how He provides... so I guess we're on different pages on this one. Just different paths. Nothing wrong with that :)
Sometimes people share their financial needs because they need help in prayer, wisdom, discernment, and God expects us to share burdens with others.
Hi Susan,
DeleteAlways love to hear from you. :)
There have definitely been times that we have not shared our needs, and the Lord has provided. There have also been times that we have shared needs, and the Lord has provided then, as well.
I know that I have loved it when I have been able to meet someone's needs, and I have only known about the need because they have shared specifics.
Why do you think Christians think it is okay to share many prayer needs (health, relationships, etc ...) . . . but struggle with sharing financial needs? Just a question I have often wondered.
This post? I really think we can learn a lot from each other. I believe that others will be encouraged by the faith we are showing as we walk this difficult journey (without credit cards, without mama working, etc...) . . . and I know I can learn from others as they share the things they have done to survive difficult financial times. I was so glad to hear that Marty and her husband took out a home equity line of credit. I don't know anything about those types of loans, but now I know that I can ask Marty more questions about the type of loan they took out.
We need to know that others are lifting us up in prayer, and we also want others to be able to share their burdens with us, as well. That, I believe, is what the Body of Christ is called to do.
Laurel
Hi! I read your blog all the time, but I don't think I have ever commented before. I thank you for talking about your struggles. Sometimes I read blogs where people have been able to adopt and have as many kids as they want and yet never seem to really struggle with finances. I always wonder what these people do for a living to have the life they seem to have. I think that sharing helps people and if it makes them uncomfortable then they can choose to not read it. I feel like bloggers, myself included, usually share the good, but there are bad/not so good times also. When you don't share those, I feel like you aren't being honest and true, which helps no one. It helps no one to think that everyone else is perfect and has no issues, while they are struggling. We are not currently struggling (much), but have definitely been there in the past. Your options (getting a 2nd mortgage for your house, etc) were never our options, so I have no suggestions. I do commend you for sticking with what you believe. Oh and I do think that having a part time job or subbing as much as possible is the best option. God will provide the job He wants him to have and will not skip him over because he is working to provide something for your family. I believe something is much, much better than nothing :)
ReplyDeleteLeila . . .
DeleteGreat to hear from you. Thanks so much for taking the time to comment.
I really liked your comment that, "God will ... not skip him over because he is working to provide something for your family." I need to remember that. Thanks.
The most difficult thing about substitute teaching is the fact that he doesn't get paid for 6-8 weeks, whereas we need money NOW. :) But, Jim has been subbing a couple of days per week, and the Lord has continued to provide for our current needs.
I hope you'll comment more often.
:) :) :)
While we (husband was) unemployed it was for a short period of time - we lived off savings and the SMALL amount of unemployment. During this time we were told that unless we were both out hunting for jobs that we could not recieve the full unemployment. But we too felt that the Lord wanted me to stay at home and trust ih Him and my husband to get a job and find a way. We did not live off credit cards and would never consider that as an option. We did not have a house and had no other resources worth much. What God called us to do was to pack up our stuff and move from one side of the country to the other for a job - even though we didn't really want to - or have the money to make such a move.
ReplyDeleteIn my youth, when money was tight and my father was unemployed sometimes my mother would houseclean and take in babysitting - just to help. They prayed and were told to sit tight and not do anything...and when the time was right, my dad found a job and we were able to survive until then on the savings to work and from small jobs. Us older teenagers had found jobs and had gone out to work at fast-food or other such prt time jobs. We then pitched in to purchase the necessities. Often, our needs were met unexpectedly and with just the right things. One winter - when there was no money or way to provide for coats for the little ones a box showed up anonomously given with coats and the perfect sizes needed. The Lord did provide.
I guess, what I am saying is there is no one way to survive. The Lord knows best - even if others may not. We as fellow Christians should reach out to those in need - not criticize. And what we need will come - because the Lord always provides (albeit it may not be what we want - it is what we need). The Lord can guide us in knowing what to do and when. If you feel called to share - than share this info. I know all too often many are unwilling to let their needs be known - I do this way too often - then wonder why God doesn't help. Often others are the tools God uses to provide. Often it is through inspiration. Often through waiting and patience.
Prayers are being said for you and your family. May you find what you need. May God bless you.
Hello there!
ReplyDeleteI commented back in december (the one who met greg at his job)I read every day but don't usually comment.
I was a Nanny for over a year and have been babysitting since I was 11 (so around 10 years) and am a HUGE believer in 'do what is best for your child/family/self'. We are all SO SO SO VERY different who says one thing must work for all of us. I just wanted to encourage you to do what is best for YOUR family, continue to blog and dodge those poison arrows.
this is YOUR blog.
YOUR family
and YOUR life.
if people have a problem with that then they dont have to make those choices or read let alone comment.
I love reading of your joys, but your mudd puddles( as you call them :) ) make you a real person and make the joys SO much better.
Emily
Hi Emily,
DeleteGREAT to hear from you. My son thought that was so cool that you recognized him at the store. :)
Yes. We are all so different, and God has a different plan for each of us. Wouldn't life be boring if God intended for all of us to think and act exactly the same? I praise Him for the differences.
And ... oh.so.true. ... I always hope that the honesty about my "mud puddles" will glorify the Lord as He works through them. If I portrayed life as "perfect", than there wouldn't be much work for God to do.
Hope you'll pop in and comment more often. I always enjoy hearing from readers.
Laurel :)
We've (blessedly) never been in a position of Luke being unemployed. I can imagine that it is very, very difficult.
ReplyDeleteJust a different perspective, but if Jim did some substitute teaching, wouldn't that put him in a position to kind of have a "foot in the door" at the schools for when they are hiring for next year? Or is that even what he want to be doing?
As for the equity line... Luke and I believe that debt is never what the Lord desires for anyone. So I'm curious now, if you're oppose to credit cards (which we are as well!) what's the difference in taking out an equity line? Debt is debt, right?
Also, we did Dave Ramsey's Financial Peace University several years ago and he is always in favor of taking smaller jobs until God makes a way for the career job. Has Jim considered delivering pizza's at night? I know you guys want him to be available during the day for job searching but is night time "minimum wage" work or delivering pizzas an option?
Just some suggestions!
GREAT questions, Jessica. Thanks for jumping into the discussion.
DeleteYes. Jim does want to teach full-time if he can get a job. So, he has been substitute teaching a couple of days per week in 2 different districts. We are hoping/praying that this would give him a foot in the door IF any full-time positions come available. (Our state has cut their education budgets drastically the past few years, so districts are laying off teachers, and there are very few open positions each year.) He would substitute more, if positions were available. Several local districts have so many substitute teachers that they aren't even allowing new substitutes.
We see a BIG difference in mortgage debt (and home equity line of credit) versus credit cards. While it would be GREAT to be completely debt free, we do not have a problem with reasonable mortgage debt.
If we have $150,000 in equity in our home . . . than we can sell the home if we get to a point that we can't make our payments.
If we have $25,000 in credit card debt . . . there is nothing of value tied to that debt, to be sold if we suddenly could not make our payments. Make sense?
If we have $150,000 in equity in our home ... and we take out a $25,000 home-equity line of credit . . . than we still have $125,000 in equity. Our home could be sold to pay our debt.
We do agree with Dave Ramsey on a LOT of his teachings. We think it would be GREAT if we were completely debt free. However, we do not believe it is absolutely wrong to have mortgage debt.
Jim has applied for MANY, MANY jobs that do not pay well. However, those employers won't hire him because they know he will continue to look for a better paying job. Jobs are SCARCE up in the Pacific NW. We know several men our age who have spent 6-18 months being completely unemployed in the past couple of years. The reality is . . . there aren't a lot of places looking to hire a gray-haired grandpa (even to deliver pizzas). When you have spent your career life being a teacher and pastor and a painter, there aren't a lot of transferable skills. (He is not a business manager; he is not a computer geek; he is not trained in specialty contracting trades except for painting. Even at the refineries, he has been a "fire watch" and a "pipe fitters helper" . . . he is not trained as a pipe fitter, nor welder (which is why he can't get jobs across the country like the other refinery guys he was working with). We both spend hours and hours and hours every single week looking for job possibilities. It is hard to find any that he is qualified for.
Thanks again for your GREAT questions. Hope the explanation of the difference between mortgage debt and credit card debt was helpful.
:) :) :)
Yep. I understand. We don't think mortgage debt is a bad thing either and it's actually the only thing Dave Ramsey is okay with as well. I was just curious how you saw the two as different. Thanks for the explanation. I don't agree w/ the equity line but it's not my decision to make and I believe that you guys are doing what you think is best for your family. I know you all are doing what you feel the Lord desires for your family!
DeleteGood news in the recent post about the teaching positions! Praying for you guys that it works out! I know it would be a huge answer to prayer!
We would only do the equity line of credit if we truly had no other way to pay our bills. We would not do it for ... home decorating, buying a new car, paying for college, paying for weddings, etc ... But, we believe that "borrowing" from our equity (only because we do have a lot of equity) is much better than losing our house due to lack of payment.
DeleteWe are hoping and praying that we won't even have to look into that option, but that the Lord will continue to provide through work for Jim (or a way for me to earn some income from home).
:) :) :)
Hi Laurel. I really appreciate your willingness to talk about subjects most people won't. :)
ReplyDeleteSince you asked, I think you should keep your house unless you are re-locating. You tried to sell it before and it didn't sell, so maybe you were supposed to have it. Your family needs a place to live, after all.
Maybe Jim could persue the painting business more? Advertise? From what you say, it sounds like he is really good at painting. If you lived in our area, I would know who to call when I needed a good painter. :)
It sounds like you are super busy at home, but is there anything at all you could do from home to make a little extra money?
You are such a strong woman to stick to your beliefs in this situation. I would be marching down and trying my darndest to get that job! Of course, I am working right now as my kids are all in school. Money issues stress me out big time. I am not a good mom when I am stressed.
Good luck. Praying for Jim to find something soon.
Hi Gina,
DeleteThanks so much for sharing your thoughts. Glad you appreciate my willingness to discuss difficult subjects. :)
I absolutely agree about keeping the house. It was on the market for 18 months, and God clearly wanted us NOT to sell it.
I have definitely been encouraging Jim to try to build his own painting business. He can work for someone else for $15 per hour, or work for himself for $45 per hour. Praying that he knows where to go to advertise, etc...
Definitely praying about ways to earn money from home, and have some things I want to pursue as soon as our crazy Spring Sports Schedule is over.
Thanks for your support and encouragement! Keep praying!
Laurel :)
For our 18 month lay off some years ago (in which we 'lost' the house), I chose to do day care (along with homeschooling my own children), was able to work part time (10-15 hrs/wk of good money)for a law firm (making copies), cut hair on the side (my past career choice), and got hired on to clean our church. I ran on adrenaline for about 6 months, but my babies needed to be fed. I just simply begged God to let me do whatever it takes...but... with ALL of these opportunities my children could be alongside me (as easy as it sometimes wasn't). I'd go to the courthouse with stroller in tow, thank God my children were well behaved! and the children thought our church was our 2nd home with all the cleaning going on, lol. We still have no credit cards/no debt, living frugally, but are so grateful to have a sustainable job for dh for the past 6 yrs! Praying the teaching job goes through for your dh, even if it isn't near Oregon. *cheesy grin*
Deletelove you dear lady,
Sheri
That is great that the Lord provided jobs for you where the children could still be with you. The problem with the jobs that I have found (for me) are ones that I would "go to work". Then . . . when Jim gets a job . . . where would the children be???
DeleteI HAVE worked outside the home many times over the past 27 years of motherhood. It is just THIS time that the LORD has clearly told me to STAY HOME. :)
For 5 years, I worked nearly full-time . . . running a "school for homeschoolers" ... but the children were in classes while I worked or I was at the office in the evening while the children were home with Daddy.
This time, the Lord just has not yet opened up any opportunities for me that answer the questions "what to do with the children?"
Hoping no one thinks that I am adamantly against women working outside the home. We each must listen for the Lord's calling on each of our individual lives.
:) :) :)
so many great thoughts here. needs are needs and God sees them. and promises to meet them. rejoicing with you and leaning on that promise!
ReplyDelete